Comments on: Interview with Susan Haack https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207 Announcing appearances, publications, and analysis of questions historical, philosophical, and political by author, philosopher, and historian Richard Carrier. Tue, 02 Jun 2026 20:51:28 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.0 By: Loren Petrich https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207#comment-3224 Tue, 22 May 2012 14:22:36 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=1207#comment-3224 Susan Haack has also written about “the six signs of scientism”:

1. The honorific use of “science” and its cognates
2. Inappropriately borrowed scientific trappings
3. Preoccupation with “the problem of demarcation”
4. The quest for “scientific method”
5. Looking to the sciences for answers to questions beyond their scope
6. Denigrating the non-scientific

http://pervegalit.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/haack-six-signs-of-scientism-october-17-2009.pdf
Susan Haack – Six Signs of Scientism – YouTube

Some of what she describes seems like what Richard Feynman had called “cargo cult science”. What might she herself think of that label?

On the demarcation problem, I prefer to avoid it and think of pseudoscience as failed science or seriously flawed science.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207#comment-3223 Mon, 21 May 2012 17:59:07 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=1207#comment-3223 In reply to Stephen Frug.

Funny you should mention that. I read and blurbed her latest book for her and was planning to blog it next month. Asking her for an interview is a good idea. I’ll do that.

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By: Stephen Frug https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207#comment-3222 Mon, 21 May 2012 14:12:12 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=1207#comment-3222 Possible interviewee, and even blogger (although I don’t know enough about her work to vouch for it): Indian philosopher (and biologist) Meera Nanda. She’s done a lot of work criticizing Hindu fundamentalism in India, and connected it to the uses of science-denying postmodernist philosophy. Worth looking into, maybe. (She’s mentioned positively — albeit with heavy qualifiers attached — in Elizabeth Anderson’s essay “How Not to Criticize Feminist Epistemology: a Review of Scrutinizing Feminist Epistemology”, which is where I saw her name, and thought that she might be worth looking into.)

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207#comment-3221 Tue, 15 May 2012 17:59:07 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=1207#comment-3221 In reply to Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform.

Ms. Daisy: Fine is arguing against the scientific establishment, and only against a few very specific claims in it, not the whole of gender differentiation biology. So let’s not misrepresent that. She does not in fact rebut the point Roo was making. But Fine does rebut extreme, exaggerated, careless, and “pop” versions of it. That is an important difference.

Fine does not even challenge the well-established fact that sex hormones cause physical and neurophysical differences in behavior and perception, for example. And the resulting or related structural differences in the brain are likewise well established and unarguable. Against it “Fine presents no original science but assiduously takes to task those who do, at least where the work seems to show brain gender” (Farrelly). But that practice has its own utility, and Fine does us a service in that respect.

There are certainly many problems and valid criticisms to be made of much of the gender differentiation literature (both methodological and ideological). And Fine’s more cautious conclusion is correct: we ought to exercise considerable caution when linking neural and hormonal sex differences to “accomplishments” or “abilities,” and any science on this question needs to be more rigorous and intelligent than it has been. But Fine confuses that fact with there being no evidence whatever of biological gender differences in the brain, or in behavior, or personality, or even ability. And that’s simply a fallacy. It’s certainly not science.

The biggest refutation of Fine’s less cautious thesis is the existence of transgenderism, and its demonstrable association with observable differences in brain structure, and its resulting differences in feelings, interests, and perceptions.

For an unmistakable analogy, on average women differ in strength from men, and men naturally build muscle faster and more easily than women, and this is biological, not cultural. Thus, men and women do differ in abilities as a result of biology. However, this does not justify the sexist assumption that all women are physically weaker than all men or that no woman can become substantially stronger, with the same effort, than she would be otherwise. I discuss this analogy in detail in my blog Are Women Just Stupid? (where I take on the sexist assumption that the answer is yes).

To carry that analogy over to the brain, it is undeniable that on average women feel some emotions differently (sometimes more readily or strongly) than men, and that this has a biological cause (both hormonal and in terms of brain structure). The obvious example: sexual libido. This varies just like bodily strength (and thus “average” does not mean “all”), but its distribution in any population differs to a measurable degree by gender and this has been solidly linked to biological differences in brain structure and body chemistry. Many other differences occur, from how vision is processed to how emotions are felt, when someone undergoes hormone replacement therapy and changes their body chemistry to that of their cross-sex gender (changes that therefore cannot be explained as cultural constructs but are unmistakably biological). Those differences will not be a product of brain structure, but we know some differences are (gender dysphoria has identifiable correlations with differences in brain structure that precede hormone replacement therapy, although they have a hormonal cause at stages of fetal development affecting brain construction).

So just as Fine argues that we shouldn’t take the scientific claims of cognitive gender differences to any extremes, so we should not take Fine’s criticisms to the opposite extreme.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207#comment-3220 Tue, 15 May 2012 16:59:27 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=1207#comment-3220 In reply to philosopher-animal.

I do have ideas of how to start such a project. And I may do so in a few years (when I have no other projects). I’ve already got much of the project plan written.

I have no idea how to write system-coherence-testing software, though. I was expecting to use the only one of those that we already have in operation: humans trained in vetting logical syllogisms.

But if you have something more concrete in mind, let’s talk.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207#comment-3219 Tue, 15 May 2012 16:53:57 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=1207#comment-3219 In reply to Ophelia Benson.

Cool. I had a similar problem with the Kitzmiller ruling (although, like Haack, I found it otherwise spot on). I had long been advocating a different solution, but that decision led me to articulate in more detail my original demarcation principle (not between science and nonscience, but between natural and supernatural, which the Kitzmiller decision conflates) in Defining the Supernatural. This then led to an article in Free Inquiry making the case in print, and my work on this has influenced other scientists and philosophers who cite or defend my position in their own publications (e.g. Yonatan Fishman in a 2007 article for Science & Education, also responding to Kitzmiller). I understand how the courts are constrained by precedents on issues like this (the Kitzmiller demarcation principle is built out of prior rulings, not independent philosophical reasoning, and to an extent the judge had no choice in that respect), but I do hope we can get this one changed–for the reasons I lay out in my intro to Defining the Supernatural.

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By: Ms. Daisy Cutter, Gynofascist in a Spiffy Hugo Boss Uniform https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207#comment-3218 Tue, 15 May 2012 14:32:05 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=1207#comment-3218 In reply to Roo Bookaroo.

…erasing the difference in sex is illusory — one of the great tenets of the fallacy of imposing PC ideology on the working of the brain.

So actual science is “PC”?

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By: steve byrne https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207#comment-3217 Tue, 15 May 2012 03:23:13 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=1207#comment-3217 i just rewatched your you tube thing about ACTS. it should be required at every divinity school in the country. ancient history is not only about jesus contra (ALL OF THEM). he is (to me) the least interesting figure of the first century.

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By: philosopher-animal https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207#comment-3216 Sun, 13 May 2012 13:50:07 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=1207#comment-3216 Haack (ever since I read her contribution in _The Flight from Science and Reason_) has been on my read-list. Interesting to see Bunge’s _Philosophy in Crisis_ mentioned too. I’ve been trying to figure out my response to that for the 10+ years since it made its rather provocative claims.

I wonder what Haack would say to the idea of a hypothetical piece of software I’ve contemplated for years now: a world view builder. Some *good* way to represent views metaphilosophically. This is because one of Bunge’s complaints can be read as saying that we have all these little papers about problems, and even if we are convinced that (say) someone has gotten it right, how do we check it against a big picture? Now, Bunge (and in a different way, Haack) are realists – they think one should try, asymptotically, to do this. I have no idea how to start such a project – which I thought also would be good for students.

Incidentally, the “systems building” stuff is so foreign to some contemporaries that they miss its point in otherwise perceptive works. Peter Simons’ classic of mereology, _Parts_, misses one advantage of Bunge’s mereology because he fails to see how it takes part in a system. In this case, it allows proving of a very basic conservation law. A filling in of another “crossword entry” in Haack’s metaphor. (It is interesting to finally hear where that comes from!)

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By: Disagreeable Me https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/1207#comment-3215 Sun, 13 May 2012 12:36:09 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=1207#comment-3215

A good read! I had never heard of her, but then I’m only really beginning to get into philosophy. Thanks for introducing me to her work.

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