Comments on: Jonathan Tweet and the Jesus Debate https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13366 Announcing appearances, publications, and analysis of questions historical, philosophical, and political by author, philosopher, and historian Richard Carrier. Wed, 03 Jun 2026 00:30:35 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.0 By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13366#comment-25318 Tue, 17 Oct 2017 18:23:49 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=13366#comment-25318 In reply to Simonibekwe.

There’s very little agreement among scholars as to how to answer that. One attempt, by The Jesus Seminar, came up with some sayings they believed really came from Jesus, and some deeds, but even their conclusions are subjective, and their aggregate report paves over the fact that there wasn’t in fact agreement on those things (every one likely had some dissenting voice; all they did was zero in on the few things that had the widest agreement).

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By: Richard Sneed https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13366#comment-25317 Mon, 16 Oct 2017 07:48:55 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=13366#comment-25317 In reply to Richard Carrier.

Much obliged, amigo. May you long continue wielding the sharp sword of TRVTH.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13366#comment-25315 Sun, 15 Oct 2017 17:51:36 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=13366#comment-25315 In reply to Richard Sneed.

Paul might deny it of course (that’s what he’s doing in Galatians 1), but almost certainly Paul learned the details from them through some channel or other (probably not directly; most likely from interrogating Christians he was persecuting). The cosmic model would certainly have been crafted (consciously or unconsciously) by Cephas (Peter) with perhaps influence from the other early leaders of whatever sect they were before this “revelation” sent them end-times-declaring.

How they did that is by pesher, a common practice in counter-cultural Jewish sects when Christianity began and a technique the first Christians were clearly using. We already see cosmic messianism being read out of scripture in the Qumran pesherim. Those documents may even come from the sect that later spawned Christianity. See OHJ, Ch. 4, Elements 5 through 9, and then 16 through 18; and with context in Ch. 5, Elements 23 through 29.

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By: Simonibekwe https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13366#comment-25314 Sun, 15 Oct 2017 09:52:38 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=13366#comment-25314 If mainstream scholars agree Jesus wasn’t responsible for crafting the “Sermon on the Mount” and that the woman caught in adultery was forged according to Ehrman, then what did Jesus actually do as a historical person?

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By: Richard Sneed https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13366#comment-25313 Sun, 15 Oct 2017 01:42:46 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=13366#comment-25313 Would you clarify what is meant in the sixth paragraph by “after the first apostles read some cosmic events out of scripture”? I’m not wondering about which events are being referred to–but rather I would like to gain a better understanding of how the first apostles’ reading is related to Paul’s ideation of Jesus. Is it simply that it’s plausible Paul got the idea for a cosmic Jesus from the apostles?

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By: Johan Rönnblom https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13366#comment-25312 Sat, 14 Oct 2017 23:59:16 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=13366#comment-25312 I don’t understand the objections to the “Cosmic sperm bank” hypothesis. It seems everyone agrees that early Christians believed:
a) Jesus was of the seed of David, literally (as told by Paul):
b) Jesus was not conceived by the seed of Joseph, but by the Holy Ghost (Matthew, Luke).

Now, where would the Holy Ghost get David’s seed from, if not from some “cosmic sperm bank”? They might not like that term. And they may argue that the insemination could not possibly have happened anywhere but on Earth. I suppose they might think the Holy Ghost kept David’s sperm on Earth all that time, like Zoroaster’s sperm was supposed to be stored in a lake somewhere. But it just seems everyone is just freaking out on this issue rather than even trying to make some argument.

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