Comments on: A Trivial Digression on the Crucifixion of Prometheus https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053 Announcing appearances, publications, and analysis of questions historical, philosophical, and political by author, philosopher, and historian Richard Carrier. Mon, 19 Aug 2024 18:50:27 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.1.4 By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053#comment-37693 Mon, 08 Apr 2024 21:38:12 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=19053#comment-37693 In reply to Bill.

It depends on what you mean by “evidence.”

If you mean, is there any credible, non-mythological evidence that Jesus even died on that calendar day, the answer is no.

If you mean, is there any credible, non-mythological evidence that if Jesus died on that calendar day then he must have died in either of those two years, the answer is “sort of.”

It depends on which calendars were being used and on what you do with the Gospel of John, which changes which day he died. Most calculations find the only suitable dates to be 30 or 33 A.D. (per John) and 27 or 34 A.D. (per the Synoptics). The year 31 is calculated in a far less credible way (on a stack of other assumptions for which there is no evidence), so it has far less support in external evidence.

But since an execution on a high holy day is legally impossible at that place and time, and the choice of day has obvious theological functions, there is no reason to believe that’s when Jesus died. Which eliminates any ability to know the year (beyond “when Pilate served,” which was 26–36 A.D.; except the Eastern chronology has Jesus killed a hundred years earlier under Alexander Jannaeus, so you’d have to decide what to do with that datum).

See my discussion of all of this in the “Date” heading of Crucifixion Quake!

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By: Bill https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053#comment-37688 Mon, 08 Apr 2024 06:54:57 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=19053#comment-37688 Slightly off topic, but I read somewhere that since Passover fell on a sabbath, the crucifixion would have either occurred in 31AD or 33AD. Is there sound evidence for this apart from gospel harmonizing? Also, what happened to the ethnic Greeks who settled in the Decapolis? Did they intermarry with the indigenous population? Thanks.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053#comment-34237 Sun, 20 Mar 2022 03:44:24 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=19053#comment-34237 In reply to KJ.

Oh. Well spotted. Thank you for adding that here.

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By: KJ https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053#comment-34043 Tue, 01 Feb 2022 16:32:44 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=19053#comment-34043 Interesting, and one thing I have observed about Greek art, is that if one depiction was famous it was copied by subsequent artists. So if you look up Greek art of Prometheus a lot is of the eagle eating his liver but guess what the other is? https://www.theoi.com/Gallery/T21.4.html exactly as the the painting you describe. That guy looks familiar.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053#comment-33767 Fri, 24 Dec 2021 07:13:25 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=19053#comment-33767 In reply to Alex Child.

That being a Medieval legend, I can’t speak to whether it was a lift from Christianity or not, suitably adapted to local culture and mores. But regardless, you are right to ask about the differences: what Odin is doing actually looks more admirable and clever than what Jesus is doing. The Christian explanation of his death suffers a great many moral and pragmatic deficits, as many have poked fun at for a while now.

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By: Alex Child https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053#comment-33762 Sun, 19 Dec 2021 19:54:07 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=19053#comment-33762 There is another Pagan God that has interesting parallelisms with Jesus. Odin in Havamal (written many centuries after Christ) gets crucified, pierced by his own spear, sacrificed himself to himself. While Jesus does this to save mankind from sins, the worst sin of them all being literally eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Genesis 3), Odin did it to gain the knowledge of the runes.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053#comment-33668 Mon, 06 Dec 2021 17:27:17 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=19053#comment-33668 In reply to Frederic Christie.

I concur. Many ancient heroes and sages do. IMO Aesop, Solon, Epicurus, Apollonius, Diogenes, Musonius would all make better company and have more a moral behavior and philosophy.

Prometheus, likely as well, though I have not read the plays all through so I don’t know how he is depicted in them in every respect; and those I think (?) are our only sources that attribute specific dialogue to him (I could be wrong about that). Otherwise, we just have “third hand” style accounts of things he did.

But yes, even judging by that, Prometheus seems far more an ally of humankind than Jesus (who is actually quite an awful person). For example, Jesus wants to burn to death most of us, and for the rest of us to follow even more impossible moral codes that deny almost all the purpose of living. Not exactly a great negotiator with God on our behalf, when you think about it.

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By: Steven C Watson https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053#comment-33661 Wed, 01 Dec 2021 17:10:03 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=19053#comment-33661 I didn’t find this trivial at all; whereas I kept wanting to nod off reading ‘The Objective Value Cascade’. Worthy though that might be. 🙂

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By: Frederic Christie https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053#comment-33595 Tue, 23 Nov 2021 01:59:08 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=19053#comment-33595 Your analysis here makes me think that Prometheus comes off like a way cooler dude than Jesus quite consistently.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/19053#comment-33594 Mon, 22 Nov 2021 22:36:40 +0000 https://www.richardcarrier.info/?p=19053#comment-33594 In reply to caporione.

You’re right, that was the Nahal Hever scroll (same period). Article emended.

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