Can you explain the relevance of that article to the article you are commenting on here?

Yes, that is the good news, and probably why we’re seeing rifts. Hopefully independent centrists will come to their senses.

People to the right of that may not all be anti-immigrant, but as you said, they hate other groups. The religious right in particular hates queer people. So as long as there’s enough hate to go around, they are happy. It seems to me that liberals operate on the opposite premise – coalition of people who want to actually make life better for groups of people.

The willingfully ignorant and the “rationalizers” need to know at least that that they are on “that side”. Or at least that’s how they are being perceived by the rest of us.

And the other thing you point out — its dangerous to not listen to something someone says because of unrelated opinions. That attitude might be fueling things like vaccine skepticism and medical recommendations. This apparently even affects doctors:

“That led me to wonder whether these divisions had gone beyond policy and into how medicine is practiced,” he says. The question was particularly intriguing because medicine is widely regarded as a bastion of science where evidence transcends personal beliefs. “Unfortunately,” he says, “that’s not quite what I found.”

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/partisan-polarization-has-crept-doctors-office

Although note, of course, I haven’t done a full analysis on this subject — its an armchair observation. (but now I’m curious about how doctors do their jobs).

People want a single worldview that comes from one source, and that can define their entire lives.

Just to clarify, I never said what Ezra claims. Which is just one illustration of Ezra’s irrationalism.

I think MAGA is an incoherent coalition and not a monopolitical sect. So, while a big faction in its coalition are anti-immigrationists, not all its factions prioritize that, and some are actually quite opposed to the form it is taking (even while the majority faction is pleased with it).

There is also a difference between MAGA and Trump voters. MAGA comprised about 70% of Republicans at the time (it’s since declined) and a small percent of independents (the extremists who are to the right of the GOP; the rest are mostly apathetic politically), and about half of indies went for Trump in the last election, which was what actually turned the election, not MAGA, which can never win an election by itself.

So explaining “Trump” is a different question from MAGA.

Non-MAGA Trumpers are even more incoherent as a coalition and are best described as emotionalist low-information voters, so for example people who literally did not know what Trump planned or said about immigrants because they literally never read or watch any news at all. Those people are probably the ones who tipped the election, and they include folks like “Joe Rogan said so, so Trump must be best” or “we need change, so I am ticking the box for the other party” and the like, as well as specific ideological pseudo-centrist voters (like sexists or racists) and subliminal voters (people who vote solely their feelings and aren’t at all aware that their feelings are being swayed by unconscious biases against women and/or blacks).

If we get back to MAGA, who are maybe at most 30% of Americans now, they consist almost entirely of hate groups, but vary as to who they hate most, and some are polyhaters (they hate more than one group). They are driven almost entirely by fear (e.g. conspiracy theories, hyperphobias) or loathing (e.g. crush the libs or commies or trannies or darkies or whoever), not by evidence or reason.

But yes. When that fear and loathing turns on you is just a matter of luck and time.

To many people, MAGA is a cult premised on hate. People start from what seems like a reasonable premise – secure the border. Then they move into extreme xenophobia. They end up cheering on night time raids on families. Or canceling everyone whose a refugee. or lying about Haitian immigrants. Or erasing memorials to black soldiers of WW2. Gay, trans people are totally the targets of Project 2025 because “family values” means “hetero normative conservative Republican Christian families”. And yeah, if you think Richard Carriers work is interesting theres a good chance you aren’t a conservative orthodox Christian. And the hatred and prejudice that is MAGA will eventually turn on you too.

Yeah. I think they forgot this is a thread about political worldviews and just gave us an unrelated list of people.

Why do you list Bart Erhman with these people?

Academically, he’s conservative on Jesus’ historicity. But in things that actually matter for real, he’s liberal and has taken liberal positions in his interviews. So not sure why you think hes not?

Handy. Thanks.

https://www.flerf.info/index.php/Escapees