My assessment is now up.

I’m not familiar with it so I can’t comment on its use or merit.

Mussolini flipped on the socialists and joined the fascists (arguably because he saw an easier path to accolades and power there—these guys tend to actually be non-ideological and just take whatever pose gets them to autocracy).

The rest I don’t even comprehend. What is a “Democrat” model? And which NaSocs are we talking about? And how was a “Democrat” model too extreme for them?

(And yes, D’Souza is a liar and convicted felon with zero qualifications of relevance, so no, we definitely should not be reading his books about anything.)

But that’s the thing. That claim about consummation isn’t in the Quran. The Quran does not mention that. So it includes betrothals, not just consummated marriages. It therefore doesn’t say anything about having sex with pre-pubescent girls.

As such, it’s just like every other ancient text from betrothal cultures: leaving it to local custom, not religious dictate. The Hadith may be different, as the Talmud is (the OT also never says anything about this), but since they are the same (in the Talmud, the debate is “7 or 12” or grass-play-ball, and that’s that), there is no way to criticize Islam without also criticizing Judaism for teaching exactly the same thing.

It’s worse that the “age at marriage and consummation” stuff is all in myth anyway, where mythical reasoning can prevail, e.g. Aishah could be imagined a miraculous prodigy and thus not representative of anyone else (the same way the toddler Jesus was imagined a relentlessly mass-murdering child prodigy in the Infancy Gospel and this was considered heroic—but only for him, not anyone else).

That’s true – quran 65 discusses the waiting period – ‘iddah’ – for female divorcees. One such category of a divorcee (verse 4) is ‘those (females) who have not menstruated (yet)’

Virtually all exegetists and jurists take this to mean minor girls.

Modernists attempt to revise Aishah’s age at marriage (at 6 years of age) and consummation (at 9) but it doesn’t really wash.

https://yaqeeninstitute.org/read/paper/the-age-of-aisha-ra-rejecting-historical-revisionism-and-modernist-presumptions

The classic retort to this ie why would he attack communist if he were a socialist is the same as why Sunnēs would attack Ṡē’ēs since they’re Muslim.

Apparently Mussolini was a socialist academic editor of Avanti?

And when the NaSocs were writing up their articles – they used the Democrat model…but found it too extreme!
(this is per a Dinesh D’Souza documentary – which the critics hated and and the plebs loved)

I’ll be looking forward to your write up. While I’ve not had the time to watch the upload of AW, I did give the comments a glance and of course couldn’t tell if they presaged a fumbled debate or were just cheerleading for AW.

Good to hear the IP debate at least led to something.

None of that is historically credible sourcing. But it does reflect what the Muslims making up or gullibly retelling those stories believed.

Which is all pretty much exactly the same thing the Talmudic Rabbis believed: age 7 might be okay, but age 12 is better, because grass-play-ball.

This thus just reflects barbaric medieval thinking altogether and not anything Quranic or even properly normative (since there was widespread disagreement). 65.4 only references divorce, not sex, and could thus encompass betrothals; it thus does not entail consummations. It makes no pronouncement about that. So there is no “normative” rule about this in Islam at all. It’s all up to local custom and temporal assumption (as in the Talmud).

Yeah, I’ve seen Wilson debate song with others of his group…. They can debate ‘well’ but ultimately biased arguments. I’m beginning to think they do it just for laughs mostly, appealing to their fan base. They are there really to just get notice and in a sense not worth debating as just gives them more exposure