Comments on: Hitler in San Francisco https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740 Announcing appearances, publications, and analysis of questions historical, philosophical, and political by author, philosopher, and historian Richard Carrier. Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:12:59 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=6.9.4 By: Julien Rousseau https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740#comment-2060 Tue, 10 Apr 2012 17:12:59 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=740#comment-2060 In reply to Arizona Atheist.

Because it proves they were translating from Genoud’s French and not (as they claimed) Hitler’s German.

Ok. I did not see it as being important because I agreed with you about that (I should have made it explicit, instead of only saying that it did not change your conclusion), I only disagreed on whether their translation of “traffique” was correct or not.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740#comment-2059 Tue, 10 Apr 2012 16:12:48 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=740#comment-2059 In reply to Julien Rousseau.

Julien Rousseau:

What does it matter when we are trying to determine the meaning of what Genoud wrote and if it was translated properly?

Because it proves they were translating from Genoud’s French and not (as they claimed) Hitler’s German. The relevance of that is that the original German does not say what Genoud’s French translation claims, so by translating from the French instead, the English edition is wholly unreliable.

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By: Julien Rousseau https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740#comment-2058 Tue, 10 Apr 2012 00:29:33 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=740#comment-2058 In reply to Arizona Atheist.

That’s true, in the intransitive. But not the transitive. Stevens and Cameron use the latter.

What does it matter when we are trying to determine the meaning of what Genoud wrote and if it was translated properly?

I haven’t studied grammar since school so maybe I am missing something but I am reading Genoud’s French in the way they translated it in English, to mean “to make commerce of”, not “to tamper”. To see it replace “traffique” with either “fait commerce” or “altérer”.

1. “Mais je ne dois rien à cette Eglise qui fait commerce du salut des âmes”.

2. “Mais je ne dois rien à cette Eglise qui altère le salut des âmes”.

I am reading the French as meaning 1 and thus correctly translated (regardless of whether the translators used a transitive or intransitive form in English, unless doing so changes the meaning in English too) and you seem to read it as 2 whereas for met to read it as 2 the French would have to be written:

“Mais je ne dois rien à cette Eglise qui traffique le salut des âmes”.

Like I said, Grammar is a long way off for me so I may be missing something here but I still don’t see what it is that I am missing.

Anyway, like i said it is just a minor point so I won’t belabor it any further than I already have but thanks for the answer.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740#comment-2057 Wed, 04 Apr 2012 18:16:31 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=740#comment-2057 In reply to Julien Rousseau.

That’s true, in the intransitive. But not the transitive. Stevens and Cameron use the latter.

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By: Julien Rousseau https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740#comment-2056 Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:45:48 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=740#comment-2056 In reply to Arizona Atheist.

I have one little correction about your paper. You said:

First, the English of Stevens and Cameron uses the word “trafficks”precisely where Genoud uses trafique. But though trafique sounds like traffick, it actually means “toy with, tamper with, to doctor,” not traffick (“to sell, deal with, trade in”). This makes their translation seem rather amateurish, as well as patently from the French, not the German, which doesn’t really suggest such a word.

In French Traffiquer also means “to sell, deal with, trade in”, for example “traffic de drogue”, thought it is mostly used for illicit trade in that sense rather than legal trade.

See definition 1 of the intransitive form here:
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/trafiquer

It doesn’t change your conclusion but I thought you might appreciate the input.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740#comment-2055 Tue, 27 Mar 2012 23:25:36 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=740#comment-2055 In reply to Moe.

Because he had no reason to lie in private, and his being a psychopath has no bearing on whether what he said was true. Indeed, to the contrary, it would go a long way toward explaining why he believed the things he said. Since his private statements substantially contradict his public statements, we have every reason to believe he was being honest in private; particularly when the context entails no reason for him to be anything but frank.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740#comment-2054 Tue, 27 Mar 2012 20:00:11 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=740#comment-2054 In reply to DrVanNostrand.

I’ve spoken at Stanford before. But I’d always be happy to be back. Recommend me to their organizers and have them get in touch with me if they are interested. My requirements are on my website.

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By: Moe https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740#comment-2053 Mon, 26 Mar 2012 22:27:37 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=740#comment-2053 In reply to R.J. Moore.

But if he was a Psychopath and a Liar, why would his private statements necessarly be any better?

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By: DrVanNostrand https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740#comment-2052 Mon, 26 Mar 2012 11:10:00 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=740#comment-2052 Are you approximately local to the Bay Area? Have you ever thought about giving a talk at Stanford hosted by our Atheist, Humanist, and Agnostic group? I’ve been on the email list for several years and I don’t recall seeing one of your talks advertised.

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By: Richard Carrier https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/740#comment-2051 Sun, 25 Mar 2012 22:14:57 +0000 http://freethoughtblogs.com/carrier/?p=740#comment-2051 In reply to Lou Doench.

Yep. I was 33 in that Harry Potter picture. Ironically, shot in England.

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