Nothing you say above actually rebuts what I have actually said in my blog or comments. So obviously you have nothing more to say.

>>I never said “absolutely they can’t meet.”

Sure you did. You said:

>>Christians can have clubs and meet on base, atheists can’t.

That’s as absolute as it gets. Then on top you denied the obvious qualifiers when I raised them.

So now you’ve finally confirmed as right everything I – and the source you tried to paint as dubious – said. And that the actual issue is trying to claim atheism is a religion, as I said. Why not just say that to start?

>>Atheism is a religious preference.
>>the discriminatory bullshit we are against
>> your own bigoted dismissal of our religious beliefs and preferences.

I’m am atheist. It’s obviously NOT a religion, it is the lack of a religion, and it isn’t discrimination. We’re treated equal to every other non-religious group.

I – and I would think most atheists – want no part whatsoever of any contradictory claims to atheist “religious” counselling, or atheist “religious” facilities, and so forth.

We simply want no part of religion at all, and attempts to claim it is a religion are absurd and incredibly counterproductive. Again, concentrate on real issues, like why Christianity is officially integrated into the military in ways.

I’m truly shocked you think atheism is a religion and these are religious beliefs. -Though it does shine a stark light upon your refusal to examine the obvious mystical basis of some of your ethical claims, but that’s another matter.

Atheism is a religious preference. So is humanism. The semantics of “only believers in the supernatural count and only they get special rights and privileges” is exactly the discriminatory bullshit we are against and that I am calling out. And here you are just proving my every point with your own bigoted dismissal of our religious beliefs and preferences.

What you as an individual want is irrelevant. What is relevant is that there are thousands of atheists and humanists who do want to be recognized and treated as equals in the military. It is your dismissal of their rights that is the travesty.

I never said “absolutely they can’t meet.” That is your fantasy projected onto my words. You are saying atheists can meet if they deny they are a religious preference and file as a nonreligious interest group. Which is precisely the kind of bullshit technicality that is discriminatory against atheists. We have to deny who we are, just to play your game. Atheist groups as religious interest groups are literally banned from meeting. They can only get around that ban by denying they are a religious preference. If you wanted that distinction to be made, it’s been made. So what else is there to discuss?

Falsely claiming to be oppressed is counter-productive. Your complaint is NOT that atheists can’t meet as you’ve been pretending – they can set up a club under the exact same rules as any other non-religious group -, it is to establish themselves as a religion which is incredibly different.

Here’s your fundamental error: atheism is not a religion. No religion isn’t a religion. Buddhism and paganism are. Atheists should NOT get the same rights and privileges.

I – and most atheists I think – would strongly disagree with what you’re asking for! We don’t want our own “religious” ceremonies and “religious” counselors and “prayer time” off and all that bunk.

The most you should ask for is to be excluded from any religious ceremonies and religious indoctrination, not to have your own.

First you say absolutely they can’t meet, then when asked you only give evidence they can’t be classified as a religion and get the benefits of that, which no one disputes and I said in my first post! The macrame club can’t do that either. (And having no religion shouldn’t be classified as a religion anyway!)

Start again: do you have any evidence at all that atheists can’t have clubs and meet on military bases in the exact same manner as any other non-religious club (macrame, Chinese language study, pedantic debate skills,…)???

If yes, present it clearly; if not, say so and move on.

You are just ignoring everything I have actually said at this point. Evidently you have left the conversation.

You claimed “Christians can have clubs and meet on base, atheists can’t”

Again, that is totally false. They just can’t claim it is a religion and use religious facilities, EXACTLY as I said in the first post.

Why not admit this and concentrate on something more serious? You’re making atheists look untrustworthy and whiny by pretending otherwise.

We don’t need to use religious facilities and have religious “lay leader” consultations. Forget that nonsense. We’ll meet at the table next to the Chinese study group if we want, we want no association with religion at all!

Chinese language study is not a religious preference. You do not get time off in a day to go to Chinese language study. You do get time off in a day to go to chapel. You don’t get to have a Chinese language military ceremony, but you should get to have a humanist/nonreligious military ceremony. When you need counseling with priest-confessional privacy, they won’t let you ask for your Chinese language instructor, nor respect your rights to privacy and counsel with them, but they will do so with any religious rep…except a humanist. Likewise dogtags and paperwork and everything else. Moreover, you can’t have a Chinese language group on base unless you go through all the paperwork to establish it (and even then it may get declined, at the whim of the CO, since you don’t have a right to have such a group meet on base); whereas you don’t have to do any of that to have a religious preference group meeting on base (you have a right to that). Humanists and atheists should get the same rights and privileges. And since Buddhists and Wiccans can use the chapel, why shouldn’t humanists and atheists? Excluding them declares their religious preference invalid, which is plain bigotry.

Your sources say:

-“fighting to get ‘humanist’ on the military’s official list of recognized religious preferences”
-“apply as a lay leader”
-“we want to use the chapels”

Why attack people rather than provide honest evidence of your claim? You pretend like atheists can’t meet but I bet they can, exactly as a Chinese language study group can meet if they want to – though they can’t use the chapels and be recognized as a religious preference either. Sounds fair to me.

Such silly claims discredit and take away from more serious claims, like basic Christian church integration into the military.